I know allot of people that consider open source people socialists. I know people that have been called communists because of what they believe. You have to admit Linux certainly flies in the face of Capitalism.
Using Tux for political matters(excluding software issues) is equal to abuse Tux.
[I like political discussion, but there are better locations for that!]
The def. of socialism:socialism
noun an economic theory or system in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community collectively, usually through the state. It is characterized by production for use rather than profit, by equality of individual wealth, by the absence of competitive economic activity, and, usually, by government determination of investment, prices, and production levels
In other words, government takes your land gives it out to people and you work on it, you don't own anything, the government tells you what to think, and you are killed or put to death for standing up to your beliefs; you call that freedom?! And besides that, socialism fails just look at the USSR!
I have no intention of engaging a huge discussion, since I do that elsewere and more than enough outside my sparetime.
But I do have to deny your allegations in very short terms.
USSR was NOT socialist, it was a fascist regime hiding behind the red flag.
A real socialist state is one, where the state is the same as the people. Yes the wealth will be shared among all citizens, witch avoids the exploitation of the economy class.
To quote something comrade gave me:
"When Capital and the ruling classes apologise for: Colonialism, the 14 hour day, Class privilege, the 7 day working week, Children in coal mines, the Opium Wars, the massacre of the Paris Commune, slavery, the Spanish-American war, the Boer War, Apartheid, anti-union laws, the First World War, Flanders, Trench Warfare, Mustard Gas, Aerial bombing, the Soviet intervention, the Armenian Genocide, Chemical weapons, Fascism, the Great Depression, Hunger Marches, Nazism, the Spanish Civil War, Militarism, Asbestosis, Radiation Death, the Massacre of Nanking, the Second World War, Belsen, Dresden, Hiroshima, Rascism, the Mafia, Nuclear Weapons, the Korean War, DDT, McCarthyism, Production Lines, Blacklists, Thalidomide, the Rape of the Third World, Poverty, the Arms Race, the Electric Chair, the Vietnam War, the Military suppression of Greece, India, Malaya, Indonesia, Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama and Turkey, the Gulf War, trade in human body parts, Exxon Valdez, Deforestation, Organised Crime, the Heroin and Cocaine Trade, Tuberculosis, the Destruction of the Ozone Layer, Cancer, Exploitation of Labour and the Death's of 50,000,000 Communists and Trade Unionists in this Century Alone, then-and only then-will I consider apologising for the errors of Socialism"
Its funny how its always claimed that USSR wasnt socialism. But think about all the places socialism has been implementet (or attemted to be, as you claim), it has allways ended up in dictaturship, oppression and genicide. So this might not be socialism according to theory, but its socialism according to realism. The ideoligy has failed whereever it reared its ugly face. Have you ever considered that maybe the reason why socialism always fails is that it fails to understand that humans are gready ?? But still, its understandable that many user from this site is attracted to socialism. As i understand most users here are german, and a new wave of anti-americanism is washing over that country so its understandable that young people who cant remember the cold war think that socialism is the answer...usually it fades when they grow up.
Very well said. For someone to claim that socialism and freedom belongs in the same sentence would be funny if it was not such a dangerous assumption. The crum catchers of society always fall prey to the allure of socialism. It appeals to their envy of those that have more and promises a system that takes from others to give to them, in their eyes fair. This is very attractive for those that are lazy or lack the willingness to work to improve their own situation. I look at socialism much like a pyramid or ponzi scheme. They keep taking from the "haves" to give to the "have nots". Once the benefits for working hard (yes, greed is a motivator)is inadequate compensation, they begin to be less productive. After all, why work your ass off if they take 75%-90% of what you earn to give to someone that sleeps till noon. Once the people on the "teat" out number the teat's compacity to produce milk, it starts to collaspse. This is where the dictatorships begin to enter the picture. They now must force this system onto their people. Unfortunately, by the time this happens they have given up so much of their freedom i.e. right to bear arms, they are helpless to fight back.
If you choose socialism than I wish you the best, but don't come to the "Great Satan" to bail your sorry ass out when the truth finally sets in. "Peace Out "
In most schools they teach you that socialism and capitalism are at two opposite ends of a linear political scale that runs from 'left' to 'right'. Politics could be better represented as a ring that eventually meets again as you go around it. Historically, both capitalism and socialism end in oligarchies that oppress the little people. In capitalism a very few elite heads of corporations accumulate all the wealth for themselves, doing all they can to prevent the masses from climbing the ladder and challenging their control... In socialism, even though the goal claims to be one of equality through 'fair' redistribution of wealth to all, the reality is that *someone* (another group of elite few -- sound familiar?) has to have the final word on what 'fair redistribution' really is. The problem with any political system is the imperfect humans that practice it. Humans tend easily toward corruption. We have all of history before us on this one.
FRONT!
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11 Comments
I know allot of people that consider open source people socialists. I know people that have been called communists because of what they believe. You have to admit Linux certainly flies in the face of Capitalism.
Using Tux for political matters(excluding software issues) is equal to abuse Tux. [I like political discussion, but there are better locations for that!]
i agree, its strange that we dont see those "dont post jesus-wallpapers here" complaining over this one....
The def. of socialism:socialism noun an economic theory or system in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community collectively, usually through the state. It is characterized by production for use rather than profit, by equality of individual wealth, by the absence of competitive economic activity, and, usually, by government determination of investment, prices, and production levels In other words, government takes your land gives it out to people and you work on it, you don't own anything, the government tells you what to think, and you are killed or put to death for standing up to your beliefs; you call that freedom?! And besides that, socialism fails just look at the USSR!
I have no intention of engaging a huge discussion, since I do that elsewere and more than enough outside my sparetime. But I do have to deny your allegations in very short terms. USSR was NOT socialist, it was a fascist regime hiding behind the red flag. A real socialist state is one, where the state is the same as the people. Yes the wealth will be shared among all citizens, witch avoids the exploitation of the economy class. To quote something comrade gave me: "When Capital and the ruling classes apologise for: Colonialism, the 14 hour day, Class privilege, the 7 day working week, Children in coal mines, the Opium Wars, the massacre of the Paris Commune, slavery, the Spanish-American war, the Boer War, Apartheid, anti-union laws, the First World War, Flanders, Trench Warfare, Mustard Gas, Aerial bombing, the Soviet intervention, the Armenian Genocide, Chemical weapons, Fascism, the Great Depression, Hunger Marches, Nazism, the Spanish Civil War, Militarism, Asbestosis, Radiation Death, the Massacre of Nanking, the Second World War, Belsen, Dresden, Hiroshima, Rascism, the Mafia, Nuclear Weapons, the Korean War, DDT, McCarthyism, Production Lines, Blacklists, Thalidomide, the Rape of the Third World, Poverty, the Arms Race, the Electric Chair, the Vietnam War, the Military suppression of Greece, India, Malaya, Indonesia, Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama and Turkey, the Gulf War, trade in human body parts, Exxon Valdez, Deforestation, Organised Crime, the Heroin and Cocaine Trade, Tuberculosis, the Destruction of the Ozone Layer, Cancer, Exploitation of Labour and the Death's of 50,000,000 Communists and Trade Unionists in this Century Alone, then-and only then-will I consider apologising for the errors of Socialism"
Its funny how its always claimed that USSR wasnt socialism. But think about all the places socialism has been implementet (or attemted to be, as you claim), it has allways ended up in dictaturship, oppression and genicide. So this might not be socialism according to theory, but its socialism according to realism. The ideoligy has failed whereever it reared its ugly face. Have you ever considered that maybe the reason why socialism always fails is that it fails to understand that humans are gready ?? But still, its understandable that many user from this site is attracted to socialism. As i understand most users here are german, and a new wave of anti-americanism is washing over that country so its understandable that young people who cant remember the cold war think that socialism is the answer...usually it fades when they grow up.
Very well said. For someone to claim that socialism and freedom belongs in the same sentence would be funny if it was not such a dangerous assumption. The crum catchers of society always fall prey to the allure of socialism. It appeals to their envy of those that have more and promises a system that takes from others to give to them, in their eyes fair. This is very attractive for those that are lazy or lack the willingness to work to improve their own situation. I look at socialism much like a pyramid or ponzi scheme. They keep taking from the "haves" to give to the "have nots". Once the benefits for working hard (yes, greed is a motivator)is inadequate compensation, they begin to be less productive. After all, why work your ass off if they take 75%-90% of what you earn to give to someone that sleeps till noon. Once the people on the "teat" out number the teat's compacity to produce milk, it starts to collaspse. This is where the dictatorships begin to enter the picture. They now must force this system onto their people. Unfortunately, by the time this happens they have given up so much of their freedom i.e. right to bear arms, they are helpless to fight back. If you choose socialism than I wish you the best, but don't come to the "Great Satan" to bail your sorry ass out when the truth finally sets in. "Peace Out "
It certainly plays right into the hands of lunatic red-baiters like Darl McBride. See http://www.economist.com/business/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2020889 and http://www.linux.ca/clic .
...I do. And if you did too, you would understand why socialism is freedom.
In most schools they teach you that socialism and capitalism are at two opposite ends of a linear political scale that runs from 'left' to 'right'. Politics could be better represented as a ring that eventually meets again as you go around it. Historically, both capitalism and socialism end in oligarchies that oppress the little people. In capitalism a very few elite heads of corporations accumulate all the wealth for themselves, doing all they can to prevent the masses from climbing the ladder and challenging their control... In socialism, even though the goal claims to be one of equality through 'fair' redistribution of wealth to all, the reality is that *someone* (another group of elite few -- sound familiar?) has to have the final word on what 'fair redistribution' really is. The problem with any political system is the imperfect humans that practice it. Humans tend easily toward corruption. We have all of history before us on this one.
how can you call socialism freedom? Do you even know what socialism is?